Decisive DGX experiment: rebuilt with -DGGML_CUDA_FORCE_CUBLAS (it's a compile #ifdef, not the runtime env we'd been setting - so prior 'cuBLAS no-op' tests never engaged it). Real result: cuBLAS is SLOWER than MMQ for dense Q4 (pp2048 690 vs 750) and runs an Ampere cutlass_80_tensorop kernel - CUDA-13 has no sm_121 GEMM, falls back to sm_80. So both MMQ and cuBLAS sit at ~46 TFLOP/s; no library shortcut to the 213 ceiling on GB10. Confirms a hand-tuned sm_120a kernel is required. Added the phased W4A16 Marlin-style implementation plan (P0 harness -> P5 enable) as the committed multi-week build; corrected the cuBLAS note. Assisted-by: Claude:opus-4.8 [Claude Code] Signed-off-by: Ettore Di Giacinto <mudler@localai.io>
4.1 KiB
W4A16 Marlin-style GEMM for ggml-cuda on Blackwell (sm_120/121) — implementation plan
The committed multi-week kernel. Goal: get 4-bit-weight dense matmul to the GB10 BF16 ceiling (~213 TFLOP/s ≈ ~3,300 t/s prefill on Qwen3-32B), ~4.3× over today's 765. This is the match-vLLM path; vLLM's own GB10 dense throughput runs on W4A16 Marlin (its FP4 path is broken on sm_121).
Why a custom kernel (validated, not assumed)
On GB10 (sm_121), measured: both llama-MMQ (int8, Ampere-tuned) and cuBLAS-FP16 sit at ~46 TFLOP/s
(~21% of peak). cuBLAS falls back to an Ampere cutlass_80_tensorop kernel (CUDA-13 has no sm_121 GEMM for
these shapes); rebuilt with -DGGML_CUDA_FORCE_CUBLAS=ON it's slower than MMQ (690 vs 750). No library
path reaches the ceiling on consumer Blackwell — a hand-tuned sm_120a kernel is required. mmapeak measures
the 213 BF16 peak as reachable, and vLLM's Marlin hits it, so the ceiling is real; the work is reaching it.
What Marlin does (the design we mirror)
Weights stored 4-bit, dequantized in-register/shared-mem in-flight; GEMM math on FP16/BF16 tensor
cores (mma.sync m16n8k16). Speed comes from: cp.async global→shared with a multi-stage double-buffered
pipeline, offline weight reshuffle into the MMA-friendly layout, activations kept resident in registers,
and Stream-K partitioning. Sources: IST-DASLab/marlin, arXiv 2408.11743, vLLM machete (Hopper successor).
Phases (each ends with: numerical parity vs MMQ + a prefill benchmark)
P0 — Harness + baseline (do first)
- Add a
test-backend-opsMUL_MAT case for Q4_K/Q4_0 at prefill shapes (M=512/2048) — gives a numerical reference and a microbench. Confirm baseline ~46 TFLOP/s. - Model-level gate: token-identical greedy generation (Qwen3) before/after, like the paged Gate 0.
- Deliverable: a red/green parity check the kernel must pass at every phase.
P1 — Dispatch seam (no behavior change)
- New
ggml/src/ggml-cuda/marlin-w4a16.cu+ a gated hook inggml_cuda_mul_mat(dense, non-ids path), behindGGML_CUDA_W4A16+ sm_120/121 + type∈{Q4_0,Q4_K}. Initially returns false → falls back to MMQ. (Mirror of thefp4-grouped-moe.cuscaffold seam.) Builds byte-identical by default.
P2 — Correctness-first kernel (slow OK)
- Dequant Q4→BF16 (reuse ggml's
dequantize_block_q4_K) into shared mem, naivemma.sync m16n8k16BF16 accumulate, small tiles. Goal: bit-parity vs MMQ (within fp tol) on the toy + the real model. Establishes the data plumbing + the harness pass. Not expected to beat MMQ yet.
P3 — The Marlin pipeline (the speedup)
cp.asyncdouble/triple-buffered global→shared; offline weight reshuffle (a one-time repack of the Q4 tensor into the mma+pipeline layout — likely a load-time transform or a new tensor variant); register- resident activation tiles; Stream-K split for the prefill M. Target: ≥150 TFLOP/s (≥~2,300 t/s), then ~213.
P4 — Tune
- Tile (mmq_x/y analogues), warps, pipeline depth, occupancy. We have nsys (throughput) but not ncu on the DGX — tuning is empirical (sweep configs, measure t/s). Note ncu would need sudo/driver perms we lack.
P5 — Enable
- Default on for sm_120/121 + Q4_0/Q4_K dense when parity holds + faster; keep the flag as an escape hatch. Ship as a LocalAI llama.cpp patch (the patches/ series) and/or upstream (ggml has no Marlin-equivalent — issue #1519 — so it's net-new upstream value; float it with maintainers first).
Risks / notes
- Multi-week, expert-CUDA, DGX-only (GB10 is the only sm_121). The session's network flakiness +
llama-clihang makellama-bench/test-backend-opsthe reliable verification tools (both work). - Quantization correctness: Q4_K's superblock structure (256-elem, 6-bit scales) is more complex to dequant in-kernel than Q4_0; consider landing Q4_0 first, then Q4_K.
- Beat-path follow-on: the FP4-MMA path (
mul_mat_q<MXFP4>, ~5% of FP4 peak) tuned/fixed on sm_121 reaches ~6,600 (2× BF16). Separate track; this W4A16 kernel is the match-path foundation. - Reuse ggml's
mma.cuhtile abstractions (MMQ already uses them) rather than raw PTX where possible.